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Name:    Eamonn Martin Gosney
City:    Kalgoorlie
Country: Australia
Email:   onnney@gmail.com
Date:    31102013

Comments:


National Pensions and Welfare Coordinator
Naval  Association of Australia
'Once Navy - Always Navy'
navalassoc.org.au
Mr Les Dwyer
NationalCoordinator@NAAPensions.org


Dear Mr Dwyer

I am writing to you about a grave injustice which took place in 1924 concerning Lancelot Macgregor Saidler, who was accussed of setting fire to HMAS Tingira and subsequently given a Services No Longer Required (SNLR) discharge.

The truth is, Lancelot wasn't the one responsible (he was just the fall guy).

What would be required to have RAN Boy 1st Class Lancelot Macgregor Saidler's SNLR discharge rescinded, and for him to be reinstated as a fully-fledged member in good graces of the Royal Australian Navy?

Kind regards

Eamonn

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Name:    Eamonn Martin Gosney
City:    Kalgoorlie
Country: Australia
Email:   onnney@gmail.com
Date:    28102013

Comments:

Well it has almost been a decade since I was last here, and in that time we have all grown a little older; including the RAN, now reaching her first 100.
Today I was reading about Lancelot Macgregor Saidler, a youngster who joined the RAN as a Boy 2nd Class on 11 March 1924, at age 16:
http://mhhv.org.au/?p=3096
A young man who seemed to have so much going for him in July 1924 (destined for a long naval career). But this wasn't to be. Within a month he's in-the-soup good and proper; accused of setting fire to the ship, collects his 'snarler' on the way out, and then a fatal bullet at the age of 22.

Here one day, gone the next..

In case I don't make it back this way again..

Nice knowing you all..

Eamonn

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Name:    ron barnes
City:    south melbourne
Country: australia
Email:   roamer@netspace.net.au
Date:    21072012

Comments:

has anybody else lost 4c in the dollar on 2nd income stream(dfrdb)which amounts to a loss of $30 pf, cleanenergy/household assistance gone mad no compo for retirees

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Name:    Stephen Hoad
City:    darwin
Country: Australia
Email:   stephenhoad@gmx.com
Date:    04082011

Comments:

Hello,
I Have recently come into contact with what i believe to be an original set of medals belonging to a Mark John Sheil r106548,i have found out that mark was with hmas Sydney and served early 1972 he has aasm vietnam clasp, vietnam supportand logistics aswell as asm PNG. As a current defence force medal I very much under stand the Sentimental value of these medals and im currently trying to search for Mark or his family. if anyone can provide me with any information in regards to mark or his family or even the avenues that i can go down to find them it wouldbe much appreciated. Stephen 0422644126

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Name:    Lyndall Sullivan
City:    Summerland Point
Country: Australia
Email:   lyndallsullivan@iprimus.com.au
Date:    25042010

Comments:

Is there an RAN Veterans Welfare Association for NSW please?
I would be very grateful to know.

Sorry, our association does not operate any offices in the east.

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Name:    john
City:    maroochydore
Country: australia
Email:   kew974@hotmail.com
Date:    25-10-06

Comments:

I have been in cronic pain since 1990 due to a motorbike accident.Both my left limbs were amputated and my left shoulder was crushed leaving me with half an arm that causes me great pain 24/7. The only relief I have is marajuana but the Queensland government will not legalise Marajuana for medical reasons. Is there any one out there who can help on this subject and how to get a submition to the government to review the whole matter if Marajuana for cronic pain (that will not cease), where traditional medicine does not work.

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Name:    Kon
City:    Melbourne
Country: Australian
Email:   kglekas@bigpond.net.au
Date:    30/06/2006

Comments:

I am enquiring about the appleal to upgrade the ASM to AASM for Rifle Company Butterworth which was lodged through NMBVAA. I would like to know if the appeal has been lodged and has there has been a response by the Department of Defence. Reason, I was there in Sept to Nov 1975 with 2/4 RAR.

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Name:    robin
City:    newcastle
Country: Aust
Email:   robanjj@ozemail.com.au
Date:    26 Aug 2005

Comments:

Zeb ya ole buggar did Bruce answer you or not I've a bitch going with Deanne Kelly re Medication and cost to Vets for accepted disabilities paying the co-payment that little johnny introduced some years back. I can tell you now I aint holding my breath.Hows the bike riding (pushie that is)goin haven't seen ya for a few year ole chap keep ripping it into them as all of us should be doin to their local member
Cyaaa

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Name:    Caz
City:    Adelaide
Country: Australia
Email:   cdohnt@bigpond.net.au
Date:    21 august 2005

Comments:

Hello, I am a daughter of an ex WO from RAN. He has been diagnosed of PTSD since the Melbourne/Voyager incident. I was wondering if there were any other children of serving men/women from the accident, that would be able to get in contact with me. I would like to understand my father, but feel that perhaps he will always be "top secret". I would like to know whether this is a personality trait or a byproduct of the accident.

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Name:    Nessy
City:    Qld
Country: Australia
Email:   grapaul@qldnet.com.au
Date:    14/03/2005

Comments:

I am an ex sailor spent most of my time on HMAS Melbourne due to sea sickness, and unfortunately was involved in the Melbourne / Voyager accident and later 2 trips to Vietnam.
I now suffer PTSD badly coused mainly from the Merlbourne / Voyager accident but inhanced greatly when I received notification that we were of to war.

I am fighting with DVA to get compensation, As I whitnessed an accident on one of the 2 trips where a Venom aircraft missed the arrestor wires and ditched overboard where the pilot lost his life, DVA require I come up with date and what trip we were on, unfortunately after some 40 years my memory has become a little hazey.

Does anyboby remember or know where I could find out the information on the accident, otherwise DVA is not interested in helping

Nany Thanks  Nessy......

Name:    nessy
City:    Qld
Country: Australia
Email:   grapaul@qldnet.com.au
Date:    14/03/2005

Comments:

I would like to communicate with anybody serving in the FAA 805 squadron whilst on HMAS Melbourne on route to Vietnam Approx.1965 and remembers the accident of a Sea Venom ditching overboard and killing the pilot, I would greatly appreciate any leads or information regarding this event

Many Thanks Nessy

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Name:    Eamonn
City:    KalgoorlieBoulder
Country: Australia
Email:   email4eamonn@hotpop.com
Date:    I Oct 2004

Comments:

Hi Darrell

It's good to see you getting out and having a few beers.

( Tuggeranong Valley Rugby Union Football Club -- http://www.pussersgreenies.org/meets.html ).

Kind Regards

Eamonn

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Name:    buckrogers
City:    Sydney
Country: Australia
Email:   poseidon@tig.com.au
Date:    270804

Comments:
I am trying to find out details for HMAS Derwent (1974-1975) with regards to trips up top (SCS, Bangkok)for references to the US Container Ship Hijacked in the Gulf of Thailand

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Name:    chinesejohn
City:    queensland
Country: australia
Email:   cjvvmc@hotmail.com
Date:    270704

Comments:

I have been advised by the National Malaya & Borneo Veteran's Association Australia (Inc) that in recognition of the work done by Commonwealth forces during the first Malayan Emergency and the Confrontation the Malaysian Government has struck a medal. Members of the NMBVAA should forward their details (O/N, name, rank on discharge, Ship and dates deployed) to Clive Wills the Brisbane Sub Branch President ASAP. eg., HMAS VENDETTA first patrol 31 August 1965 Malacca etc. The Association will forward a nominal list of members to the Australian High Commissioner in KL for forwarding to the Malaysian Government for consideration of eligibility. At this time those who saw service in Malaya and Borneo who are not members of the Association will have to make their own applications to the Malaysian Government. When more info is available I will pass it on. Anyone wanting to join the NMBVAA (our members are of many nationalities and include all three services, police, medical, civil admin etc) or requring information please contact me on 07 4163 2196.
Graeme Hanisch

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Name:    EamonnGosney
City:    KalgoorlieBoulder
Country: Australia
Email:   goz  at  elvis.com
Date:    18 June 2004

Comments:

I wouldn't want anyone, reading some of my recent postings on this Forum, to get the idea that I believe that the government doesn't need any improvement.

So I am posting some information on one of the issues which is close to my heart, where I believe changes would be welcome. It is to do with medical matters and some of the questionable activities that take place:

Animal Sacrifices or Science
http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/online/research/croce1.html
 
Professor of medicine -- who used to be an animal experimenter -- renounces the unscientific rituals dogmatically shoved down his throat at medical school.
 
To find out what the professor is talking about (there are several webpages -- by clicking 'Next panel' at the bottom of each page, you will be taken to the next webpage)

WARNING: This is highly disturbing material of creatures in horrific conditions. If you get upset from viewing such, it might be best if you don't:

Click here to view:
http://www.novivisezione.org/mostra/pan1_en.htm

Goz

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Name:    LesFigg
City:    SantaClara
Country: USA
Email:   les_figg@comcast.net
Date:    22 May 2004

Comments:

I have located Brian 'wacka' Payne (ME) and have a last known address and phone number for Bob 'Doc' Barr (LSBA).

Thanks,
Les.

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Name:    LesFigg
City:    SantaClara
Country: USA
Email:   les_figg@comcast.net
Date:    21 May 2004

Comments:

Looking for old crew mates

Does anyone have any contact info for any of the following ex-pusser's who I served with in HMAS Hawk in 1966?
Brian (Lofty) Hain ex-Cook
Cliff Jamieson ex-Stoker
'Wacka' Payne ex-Stoker
ABUW Girdler
LSQMG Pete Noonan
LSBA Barr
LAMET 'Buck' Raynor

Thanks & Regards,
Les

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Name:    EamonnGosney
City:    KalgoorlieBoulder
Country: Australia
Email:   goz  at  elvis.com
Date:    2 May 2004

Comments:

Dear Bruce

I'm sorry to hear of your disillusionment with the current system.

I have been perusing the AAT website, and reading how the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) provides independent review of a wide range of administrative decisions made by the Australian government. And reading about the fair, impartial and high quality review that the AAT provides to the individuals and government agencies who use its services. http://www.aat.gov.au 

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Name:    BrucePotts
City:    Darwin
Country: Australia
Email:   beapea@optusnet.com.au
Date:    01/05/04

Comments:

In making a claim that is disputed there are several forms of evidence forthcoming.
DVA refers to the ROP (Report of proceedings) which are signed off by the CO every month. Ships Logs are also used (if they can be found) Medical records which are unfavorable are also used, nothing to do with the claim, just used to discredit the plaintiff.
The ROP never refers to ALL the events that occur and its left to the plaintiff to provide letters from shipmates etc to support his story.
We are all not equal in the eyes of the law when a verbal recollection of events is in dispute.
This is especially so if the dispute reflects on past conflicts with our near neighbours that could sour existing relations or that former officers career's could be tarnished.
I am sure that other ex vets will relate to this.
You have more chance of finding a supportive friend in the Mission to Seaman than in the Naval & Military Club.
This is my last word on the subject.

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Name:    EamonnGosney
City:    KalgoorlieBoulder
Country: Australia
Email:   goz  at  elvis.com
Date:    30 April 2004

Comments:

Dear Mr Potts

You claim that a former Naval Officer confessed on his death bed that he had lied to the Voyager Royal commission, and from reading transcripts from AAT hearings over several years this practice
is not unusual.

Do you have copies of these transcripts which show Naval Officers lying -- to back up your claim?

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Name:    BrucePotts
City:    Darwin
Country: Australia
Email:   beapea@optusnet.com.au
Date:    28/4/04

Comments:

I served in the RAN 64-84. Anzac, Vendetta, Queenborough,Stuart,
Vampire,  Tarangau, Parramatta, Derwent and Swan paid off as a CPOUC. Does that satisfy Mr Gosney?.

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Name:    BrucePotts
City:    Darwin
Country: Australia
Email:   beapea@optusnet.com.au
Date:    28/4/04

Comments:

The comments regarding DVA are mine. I used the wrong section of the board. My apologies to the Webmaster who I was becoming tetsy with.

Bruce Potts

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Name:    EamonnGosney
City:    KalgoorlieBoulder
Country: Australia
Email:   goz  at  elvis.com
Date:    27 April 2004

Comments:

Dear 'Name not supplied for publication'

I'm interested in why you didn't put your name to what you posted.

Do you fear for your life?

Do you believe your phone will be tapped?

Do you believe a squad of armed balaclavaed commandos will storm your bedroom one morning?

If you post on a website somewhere, the evidence you claim to have acumulated, and put your name to the webpage, people may then look at it as more than scuttlebutt.

Kind Regards

Goz

NOTE: The reason for the senders name not being posted was that the original message was not sent in the  Open Forum format and as such did not have the details that are normally visible. It was my decision to post the message in Open Forum after contacting the writer. The writer has nothing to hide from his action and was posting the message to warn other people to be wary of any dealings with DVA  after his past experiences in making a claim.
Webmaster.

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Name not supplied for publication

A former Naval Officer confessed on his death bed that he had lied to
the Voyager Royal commission.
Reading transcripts from AAT hearings over several years this practice
is not unusual.
In making a claim against DVA ex RAN  lower deck personnel should
expect to be humiliated and discredited by those who professed
profusely that loyalty extends upwards and downwards.
Those who accept 30 pieces of silver in assisting DVA  I offer nothing
but contempt.

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Name:    LesFigg
City:    SantaClara
Country: USA
Email:   les_figg@comcast.net
Date:    20/04/2004

Comments:

Here is a list of participants in our USA ex-RAN meet & greet:

Steve Grinrod (organized the accomodation but was unable to make it to the event)

Bomber (Nev) & Stella Brown
POEWR

Robert (Prof) Caudwell (spouse unable to attend)
POEWR

Des & Catherine Edwards
POETC

Les & Lynne Figg
LEMWR

Rob & Carol Hall
LtCdr Supply

'Sam' & John Perales
Wran SBA

Bill & Barbara Pierce
CPOEWR

Peter & Marian Pincombe
POETC

Mick and Nikki Reilly
POEP

Neville Sharp & Helen Miller
POMTP3

Mike & Sally Thomas, and Mike's son & daughter
POEP

Jack & Anita Thompson
CPOEP

Wayne & Cathy Whitby
POWTR

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Name:    LesFigg
City:    SantaClara
Country: USA
Email:   les_figg@comcast.net
Date:    20/04/2004

Comments:

We had our ex-RAN meet & greet in Cayucos Beach, CA this past weekend. What a blast! We had a total of 13 ex-sailors, 12 spouses/partners and 2 adult kids.

2 ex-sailors did know anyone in the group, most knew one or two, and a couple had served with 4 or 5 others in the group. Within a very short period of time everyone, including spouses/partners were interacting like we had know each other all our lives. Ages ranged from the 70s to the 40s - the earliest year of enlistment was 1952 and the most recent 1982. The event was an outstanding success and will become an annual event.

All but one couple live in California, having driven between 20 and 300 miles to get to the location. One couple flew in from Chicago.

17 of us arrived on Friday and 'socialized until about 1:30am. Saturday saw a large part of the group sampling the produce of the local vineyards.
Saturday evening we had a BBQ dinner and continued socializing well into the night.

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Name:    EamonnGosney
City:    KalgoorliBoulder
Country: Australia
Email:   goz@elvis.com
Date:    15 April 2004

Comments:

When I was over in Longbeach California for 14 months on HMAS Perth in 1975, I was given a month's r&r (rest and recreation).

Myself and a Navy buddy travelled around by Greyhound bus for the month and visited 28 different states.

Here we both are in New York:
http://groups.msn.com/StoriesShort/navy.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=57

Does his face look familiar to anyone? Would love to hear from him.

Warm Regards

Goz

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Name:    Seashells
City:    Adelaide
Country: Australia
Email:   cajunjon@adam.com.au
Date:    12/04/2004

Comments:

My name is John RASPE
Ex LSWM
R66261
Nickname SEASHELLS
Alias CJ

Am Looking for anyone who served on HMAS VENDETTA D08 Vietnam 69/70 now residing anywhere

Need Contact info Suburb - City - Tel - Mob - Email etc etc

Any suggestions Can U help

Someone just may someone who served on the
HMAS VENDETTA D08 VIETNAM TOUR OF DUTY

Maybe YOU could place this email on any notice board
or at your local RSL Sub-Branch in YOUR State and or any RSL SUB-BRANCHES AND CLUBS


 Regards

PLEASE REPLY TO MY EMAIL ADDRESS
cajunjon@adam.com.au 

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Name:    EamonnGosney
City:    KalgoorlieBoulder
Country: Australia
Email:   goz@elvis.com
Date:    9 April 2004

Comments:

I have an interest in entity possession and have been reading this fascinating piece about a Vietnam veteran who had the spirits of his buddies inhabiting his body with him:
http://www.halexandria.org/dward437.htm
 
The more I find out about this captivating subject, the more amazed I become.
 
And what about this incredible statistic: that out of the approximate 1,600,000 American soldiers who served in Vietnam -- 800,000 have had severe emotional and psychological problems since the war.

Regards

Goz

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Name:    steelydan
City:    mandurah
Country: aussie
Email:   steelephil@yahoo.com.au
Date:    12/3/2004

Comments:

Heroes worthy of medals, say families
Mark Phillips
12mar04

FAMILIES of sailors killed in a fire on the tanker HMAS Westralia want their children to be properly recognised with bravery awards.

In a submission to the Senate's inquiry into the military justice system, Victor Meek said his son, Leading Seaman Bradley Meek, deserved an individual bravery medal for his heroism in saving other sailors.
Ldg Seaman Meek, 25, died from smoke inhalation after herding crew mates to safety from a fire in the ship's engine room in 1998.

Four sailors who died in the fire were recognised with posthumous awards in 1999.

But relatives have made submissions to the Senate inquiry that some awards given to survivors were undeserved and some of the dead were not honoured appropriately.

"For his heroic actions, he (Ldg Seaman Meek) only received a group citation along with everyone else in the engine room and three hose teams," Mr Meek's submission said.

"I believe my son's heroism was exceptional and for saving some of his fellow crew mates before thinking of his own safety he should be posthumously awarded the George Cross."

Lyndon Pelly, whose 22-year-old daughter Megan also died in the fire, said it was remarkable that Ldg Seaman Meek was overlooked for an individual bravery award.

The George Cross is the highest British award for civilians and military personnel for heroism not in the face of the enemy. In Australia, the imperial awards system was superseded by Australian awards in 1991.

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Name:    SteelyDan
City:    Mandurah
Country: Aussie
Email:   steelephil@yahoo.com.au
Date:    24/2/2004

Comments:

Iraq campaign medal mooted

February 24, 2004 - 4:05PM

The government is considering whether to award Australian military personnel a special campaign medal for involvement in the Iraq war.

That follows the British government's decision to award military personnel and some civilians, including accredited war correspondents, medals acknowledging their collective bravery.

The US is also planning to award its personnel a special campaign medal.

A spokesman for defence personnel minister Mal Brough said those who served a minimum of one day in Iraq were eligible for the Australian Active Service Medal.

"The government is currently considering a campaign medal," he said.

"Individuals who have given outstanding service are awarded individual medals accordingly."

The issue of suitable recognition for Australians personnel who participated in the Iraq conflict emerged even before the fighting ended with suggestions that the conflict warranted its own specific campaign medal.

Commander of Australian forces in the Middle East Brigadier Maurie McNarn said at the time that all those who served in the war in Iraq would receive the Australian Active Service Medal with Iraq clasp.

He said he expected many of the troops would like a specific campaign medal like that issued to those who served in East Timor.

"It is something that the government and (defence force chief) General (Peter) Cosgrove will look at once we cease operations," he said.

"We are now the only country not to establish a campaign medal," said one unnamed Australian officer who served in the conflict.


This story was found at: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/24/1077594812289.html

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Name:    EamonnGosney
City:    KalgoorlieBoulder
Country: Australia
Email:   goz@elvis.com
Date:    17 Feb 2004

Comments:

Do you like Short Stories and Poems...or maybe Tall Tales?
If you would like to read some Short Stories -- or you have one or two literary pieces up your sleeve which you would like to add -- please visit our little Short Story place:

http://groups.msn.com/StoriesShort

Kind Regards
Goz

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Name:    EamonnGosney
City:    KalgoorliBoulder
Country: Australia
Email:   goz@elvis.com
Date:    15 Feb 2004

Comments:

I'm wondering if someone can explain something to me about the Navy.

Here is my story:

I joined the Royal Australian Navy as a Junior Recruit at the beginning of 1972. I was a 16-year-old and signed up for 12 years.

During my time in the Navy, I served on the DDG HMAS Perth, the patrol boat HMAS Attack, the oceanographic research vessel HMAS Diamantina -- and finally -- the aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne.

Whilst on HMAS Melbourne, I went home on leave from Sydney where the Melbourne was, to Karratha WA where my parents were. On the way home I was arrested for possession of marijuana, and spent an overnight stay at the Geraldton WA police lockup. Next day I fronted a judge and was fined $100. I continued on up the coast to Karratha without further incident, and made it home.

When I returned to HMAS Melbourne, after completion of my leave, I asked to leave the Navy. I was sent to the hospital at HMAS Penguin "for observation" for a few weeks. Returning to HMAS Melbourne I was told by my Divisional Officer that I could either stay in the Navy and complete my 12 years -- or I could leave if I wished to.

I told him I wished to go.

After having served 7.5 years, I was subsequently discharged from the Royal Australian Navy -- Services No Longer Required.

What I would like to know is, why the Royal Australian Navy chooses to punish the men and women who have served this country -- simply because they decide to leave?

Why does the Royal Australian Navy feel the need to be so vindictive?

If somebody, wishes to leave, why can't the Navy just say -- "Fine -- here is your discharge, thanks for your service to your country."

Why does the Navy (the Admiralty in Canberra) feel the need to humiliate servicemen who wish to leave -- by issuing them with a "snarler" (Services No Longer Required)?

Kind Regards

Eamonn Gosney

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Name:    Steelydan
City:    Mandurah
Country: Aussie
Email:   steelephil@yahoo.com.au
Date:    12/2/2004

Comments:

Robin,
There is a bloke here in Mandurah that is a TPI that was there during that incident,his nickname is Side Winder and I believe due to his injuries he was flown back to Australia from Vietnam.
It is another part of the Conflict in Vietnam that should be recorded

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Name:    RobinTHOMSON
City:    GinGin
Country: QldOZ
Email:   batcave@dodo.com.au
Date:    09/02/04

Comments:

hi,
   i would like to see an incident acknowledged, that occured on HMAS Hobart during her first deployment to vietnam . We were at action stations providing NGS ,when we came under fire from enemy shore batteries . the captain called down to the engine room for revolutions for 25 knots . the leading stoker on the throttle wheel , apparently "lost the plot" and cranked the revs on too fast . This had the effect of shutting down the propulsion system . the lights went out , and you could hear the turbines slowing to a stop . to anyone below decks it appeared that we had been hit by enemy fire and that we were a sitting duck waiting for the water to come rushing in . after a while the turbines came back on line and we proceeded away from the shore . I personally have suffered from PTSD as a result of this incident . i have no doubt that others have also been affected . when i claimed compensation , i had to prove that this incident took place because no record of it was kept . i would like to see the government acknowledge this incident , if only to save others some of the anguish when dealing with the DVA...reguards...rob

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Name:    SteelyDan
City:    Mandurah
Country: Australia
Email:   steelephilip@yahoo.com.au
Date:    7/2/2004

Comments:

Call for Gulf War syndrome review
A senior lawyer has demanded a public review of the issues surrounding Gulf War syndrome.
Thousands of veterans have suffered a diverse range of illnesses, which many blame on injections administered before the conflict.

But there has been no conclusive scientific proof that the illnesses are related to the conflict.

The Bar Council chairman has now written to Lord Morris of Manchester, who has campaigned for the veterans.

Stephen Irwin QC is backed by other lawyers, who believe that even in the absence of a legal case, the government should look again at the plight of the veterans.

There is not enough evidence to show negligence on the part of the Ministry of Defence.

But Labour peer Lord Morris said many armed forces personnel had to undergo a "blitzkrieg" of injections before the conflict.

On Saturday, he will delivering the letter to Downing Street.

In it, Mr Irwin wrote: "There is no doubt that many of them are ill. It is accepted by experts worldwide that the veterans suffer ill health which is associated with their active service in the Gulf.

"Science has not explained the mechanism or mechanisms of their illness, much less that their suffering has resulted from fault.

"Nevertheless, we firmly believe that for very many veterans, their suffering is genuine and has a significant impact on their daily lives and the lives of their families."

He continues: "We would ask government to consider instituting a full public review of the position of the veterans - as has been called for by the Royal British Legion - and to instigate a process of conciliation with the veteran groups.

"This should be designed to mark the effects of war service on the veterans who are suffering and to make good, by ex gratia payments, the deficiencies of the War Pension Scheme."

As many as 2,000 ex-servicemen and women believe they have the condition which is said to involve symptoms as wide as neurological problems, headaches, depression, muscle weakness, joint and muscle pain, sleep disturbance, skin rashes and shortness of breath.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/health/3467839.stm

Published: 2004/02/07 05:38:19 GMT

BBC MMIV

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Name:    CJ
City:    goldcoast
Country: Australia
Email:   cjvvmc@hotmail.com
Date:    29-01-04

Comments:

----- Original Message -----
From: Zev
To: Tony.Abbot.MP@aph.gov.au
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:39 PM
Subject: Moral Guardians


Zev Ben-Avi
Advocate - Vietnam Veterans Motorcycle Club
4 Brooker St
Woodford  QLD  4514
(07) 5496 3444
linkezev@bigpond.com
 
G'day,
   With regard to the article you wrote in the Australian dated 23 Jan 04. I find that I must comment on your use of the "moral" without actually referring to the material content.
   Let me quote you -
   1.   "There is a moral case to be made for the policies of the Howard Government."
   2.   "To some the moral quality of a government which has stood up for Australian values ..."
   3.   "Moral courage is not doing what's right when everyone else agrees.  Moral courage is doing what's right when people who
        should know better declare you're wrong.  By this test the Howard Government has repeatedly demonstrated that it's
        worthy of the Australian people's trust."
   4.   "Moralists will continue to question how the fall of Hussein, the liberation of East Timor ... has been brought about - but
         they can't deny the moral seriousness of the government that helped to make them happen."
   5.   "Sending troops into battle is by far the weightiest decision that a government can make."
 
   Some 6 years ago a campaign was started simultaneously by myself and by John "Blue" Ryan (now National President of the TPI Federation) to get your government via the then Minister for Veterans' Affairs, Bruce Scott, to look at the serious erosion in veterans' entitlements and in particular the TPI (Totally and Permanently Incapacitated) and War Widows rates.  Myself and Keith Payne VC had a meeting in Brisbane with John Perrin from the PM's office on these issues in March 2000.  When the issues were first presented to Scott by me in February 1999, it took several reminders and 6 months and a day to eventually get a meaningless response.
   Now tell me about "morals".
   In February of 1996 the Liberal/National Coalition put out a policy statement on veterans' issues and one of these was the promise to review the "apparent anomoly" of the Social Security Act stating that veterans' disability pensions were counted as "income" when applying for benefits from then DSS.  The Veterans' Entitlement Act '86 and the appropriate Taxation Acts have always stated that veterans' disability payments are never counted as "income" or "earnings" and this has been the case since 1917.   Your Liberal/National Coalition made this promise in opposition in February 1996 and has yet to do anything about this "apparent anomoly".  Look that up in a Thesaurus and you will find that an "apparent anomoly" can also be stated as an "obvious error".  Don't review it, fix it as promised.
   Now tell me about "morals".
   In June 2003 a TPI protest was held outside Parliament House in Canberra from the 16th to the 19th by veterans who had travelled from North Queensland and Western Australia and points in between.  These men and families who are not well - that's why they are deemed TPI, travelled at great expense, which they cannot afford, to protest as there is NO RESPONSE from government on their claims.  The PM went to Sydney to welcome home the troops from Iraq but could not travel 200 metres to talk to old diggers about very real problems.  Minister Vale also could not travel that same short 200 metres.  The PM travelled to Roma and Mitchell to talk to farmers and stated  (Australian, 5/6 July 03) - "Nothing beats coming out here and having a look with our own eyes at the land and the vegetation...It gives you a much better understanding of it than if you just stay in a cubby hole somewhere else in the country."  The PM can go to the farmers and he can go to welcome the troops home but he cannot walk 200 metres to talk to old diggers about our well publicised and very real problems.
   Now tell me about "morals".
   One of the many issues that have been a part of the TPI Campaign for a Fair Go has also been the War Widows Pension rate.  Keith Payne VC and I raised this issue with John Perrin some 4 years back.  For the first time in over 39 years this country has had a War Widow - Kylie Russell, as a direct result of combat rather than as a result of War Caused Disability/Disease.  Kylie gets the princely sum of $13,000 pa.  We have been campaigning on this issue for over 6 years and what do we get ?  Danna Vale telling us that Kylie also got a "lump sum" of some $93,000.  What she didn't tell everbody was that Sgt Russell's superannuation paid that and it would have also been paid should he have walked under a bus in Perth !   Smoke and mirrors.  Vale also said on a morning TV show last year that TPI's can "earn" up to $1,900 per fortnight with a set of very dodgy figures.  She cites a married TPI with qualifying service and two teenage children.  This is a circumstance that is almost unknown.  Qualifying service is for people who served in Vietnam then a jump to Timor/Afghanistan/Iraq.  Vietnam veterans are few who are still married and with teenage children, I have teenage grandchildren and a greatgrandchild. TPI Veterans from Timor/Afghanistan/Iraq with teenage children are also very few if any.  The other monies she quites are available to the general public (child allowance etc) and are NOT a part of the TPI Compensation package.  More smoke and mirrors.  Meanwhile Kylie Russell gets a "generous" $13,000 pa for losing her husband.  She was also NOT invited to the recent functions in Canberra that involved memorials to her husband or the BBQ's with Howard/Bush et al, despite sporting names and "celebrities" getting an invite.  Kykie didn't even know about these events until she heard it on the radio/ saw it on TV.
   Now tell me about "morals".
   Quote #5 from above states - "Sending troops into battle is by far the weightiest decision that a government can make."  It's a pity that the troops are ignored and abandoned when they have been used and abused and forgotten.
   Now tell me about "morals".
   In February 2001 I wrote to my local member Mal Brough and asked him to clarify four "mantras" often used by government.  They were - 1. User Pays.  2.  Mutual Obligation.  3.  Enterprise Bargaining.  4.  Collective Bargaining.   TPI's feel that when it comes to User Pays then government is the "User" having used our perfectly good bodies and minds (attested by the very thorough medicals before embarkation) and those minds and bodies not being returned in anywhere near the same good working order.  That's why we get TPI and that it is nowhere near the rate that it should be and has been allowed to erode over many years is a national shame.
   Now tell me about "morals".
   The Mutual Obligation is owed to us not by us.  We TPI's have already paid the price and government seems to think that we should get bargain basement compensation.
   Now tell me about "morals".
   We are told that Enterprise Bargaining is the model that your government uses yet we TPI's cannot get a look in the door when we try Enterprise Bargaining and we don't even get a visit to talk about the real problems when all that was required was a 200 metre walk.
   We are told that the previous Collective Bargaining is out as far as industrial relations are concerned yet when we TPI's want to talk to government we are told that we must do it through our Ex-Service peak bodies in what amounts to Collective Bargaining.
   The letter to Mal Brough of February of 2001 is still unanswered despite my having brough it to the attention of him and his staff.
   Now tell me about "morals".
   You are prepared to "Send troops into battle" yet your current Foreign Minister was not prepared to do so himself in the Vietnam era and conveniently found himself in the UK to avoid conscription.  Did he even register for National Service, sure the day before and the day after his birthday was ballotted but was he registered for that ballott ?  Your current Minister for Defence was a National Service deferee who "found" himself in the UK whilst under deferment and was ironically "saved" by Whitlam canning NS.  Your previous Minister for Defence was also a draft dodger.  Despite all this sabre rattling by these people you can still make a throw away line like in Quote #5.
   Now tell me about "morals".
   To quote your article about the Russell Crowe film, you state - "...the alternative to losing a man overboard is losing the entire ship..."  It would seem that TPI's have, yet again, been "lost overboard", but it's OK, we "saved" the rest of the crew.
 
   Zev Ben-Avi
   Advocate, Past President, Life Member, Founder - Vietnam Veterans Motorcycle Club

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Name:    steelydan
City:    Mandurah
Country: Australia
Email:   steelephil@yahoo.com.au
Date:    19-1-2004

Comments:

this is just for information something I saw on the cbs news web site.There are different stories relating to this one but would take up too much room on this forum.

Secrecy Over Cold War WMD Tests
WASHINGTON, Jan. 16, 2004


The Pentagon is continuing to withhold documents on Cold War chemical and biological weapons tests that used unsuspecting sailors as "human samplers" after telling Congress it had released all medically relevant information.

In response to questions from The Associated Press about a deposition last month by a former military scientist, J. Clifton Spendlove, who planned and supervised the testing program, the Defense Department acknowledged this week it still has documents laying out the scope and methods of the tests.

Detailed planning documents and reports for each of the tests are classified because they identify vulnerabilities of military vessels to chemical and biological warfare agents and capabilities for delivering the agents, the Pentagon said in a response to questions from the AP.

In some cases, samples were taken from sailors to measure their exposure to tracers used to simulate chemical and biological agents, the Pentagon's written statement said. Reports on them were not released because they "did not include any plans or data that measured human effects," according to the
statement.

Project 112 and the Shipboard Hazard and Defense Project consisted of 50 tests conducted between 1962 and 1973. The tests were conducted in Alaska, Maryland, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Utah, Panama, Canada and Britain and aboard ships in the North Atlantic and Pacific oceans.

CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales first reported in May 2000 on the more than 100 secret tests, some of which bore names like Autumn Gold, Copper Head, Flower Drum or Fearless Johnny.
The secretive tests involved 5,842 soldiers and sailors - many of whom were unwitting guinea pigs.

The experiments were designed to determine the effectiveness of biological and chemical agents in combat and methods to protect troops from attacks. An untold number of civilians also may have been exposed during some of the tests on the troops.

In most cases, supposedly harmless simulants were used to mimic anthrax, E. coli or other agents, although in a number of cases potentially deadly nerve agents were used, including sarin and VX.

Numerous veterans say they are now suffering from illnesses because of exposure, but the Veterans Affairs Administration has denied requests for health care coverage.

After a three-year investigation that Pentagon officials characterized as "exhaustive," the Defense Department released an overview of the tests and a series of fact sheets last June and then disbanded the probe.

But the overview and fact sheets didn't acknowledge the documents and films that were obtained by the plaintiffs and authenticated by Spendlove, including results of tests to determine how much of the chemical simulants the "human samplers" were exposed to.

The Pentagon had already issued its first set of findings before it contacted Spendlove, who planned the Project 112 tests from the Deseret Test Center in Dugway, Utah.

Spendlove, in sworn testimony in a federal court lawsuit in Washington on behalf of the veterans, said sailors were used in the tests as "human samplers" and cited several documents and films laying out the scope and
methods of the tests.

During his deposition, Spendlove was shown reports and films from a few of the tests that were obtained by the plaintiffs. He identified ships and individuals and vouched for their authenticity and indicated many more
documents are likely stored at the library at the Deseret center where the testing program was headquartered.

In one of the plaintiffs' films, a soldier is loading the orange-tinted simulant used to mimic anthrax or other biological agents into a plane that would spray it on a boat. He is not wearing any protective equipment and is
caked with the substance.

Spendlove's account was corroborated by Norman LaChapelle, a top Navy officer on the project, in an interview this week with the AP.

But LaChapelle, a retired Navy commander who is now in charge of chemical and biological weapons response for the city of Memphis, said he was never contacted by the Pentagon in its investigation.

"(Darn) right I was surprised" at not being contacted, said LaChapelle, who was in charge of the execution of the SHAD tests from 1964-1970. "We were involved in it. We weren't sitting in Salt Lake City. We were sitting at the test site."

The Vietnam Veterans of America is suing Pentagon officials on behalf of the sailors, demanding the release of all of the test documents so the National Academies of Science can fully analyze the potential health effects.

Douglas Rosinski, an attorney working with the veterans group on behalf of the soldiers, said the effects of the chemicals on the sailors has not been studied. The levels of exposure that the documents might detail is a crucial piece of the puzzle, he said.

Rep. Mike Thompson, D-Calif., was frustrated by the revelation that the Pentagon is still unwilling to share information about the tests with the exposed sailors.

"It doesn't sit with me at all," said Thompson, one of several lawmakers who pressured the Pentagon into admitting the existence of Project 112 after 30 years of denials.

"I was under the impression that these guys had unearthed everything that was out there that was available and they'd done the work they were charged with doing. If what (Spendlove) says is true, they haven't done the work."

The United States scrapped its biological weapons program in the late 1960s and agreed in a 1997 treaty to destroy all its chemical weapons. But according to an October 2003 report by the General Accounting Office, 1990, the U.S. has destroyed only 26 percent of its 31,500-ton stockpile of chemical agents.

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Name:    Steely
City:    Mandurah
Country: Australia
Email:   steelephil@yahoo.com.au
Date:    15-1-2004

Comments:

As this is an Open Forum,I thought I would post this as well,due to the fact we still have members of the ADF in places around the world.

US soldier suicide rate up in Iraq
By Matt Kelley in Washington
15Jan04

US soldiers in Iraq are killing themselves at a high rate despite the work of special teams sent to help troops deal with combat stress, the US Defence Department's top doctor said.

Meanwhile, about 2500 soldiers who had returned from the war on terrorism were having to wait for medical care at bases in the United States, Dr William Winkenwerder, assistant secretary of defence for health affairs, said.
The problem of troops on "medical extension" was likely to get worse as the Pentagon rotatedhundreds of thousands of troops into and out of Iraq this spring, he said.

Both situations illustrate the stresses placed on the troops and the military's health system by the war in Iraq.

Suicide has become such a pressing issue that the Army sent an assessment team to Iraq late last year to see if anything more could be done to prevent troops from killing themselves.

The Army also began offering more counselling to returning troops after several soldiers at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, killed their wives and themselves after returning home from Afghanistan.

Winkenwerder said the military had documented 21 suicides during 2003 among troops involved in the Iraq war. Eighteen of those were Army soldiers, he said.

That is a suicide rate for soldiers in Iraq of about 13.5 per 100,000, Winkenwerder said. In 2002, the Army reported an overall suicide rate of 10.9 per 100,000.

The overall suicide rate nationwide during 2001 was 10.7 per 100,000, according to the federal Centres for Disease Control and Prevention.

By contrast, two US military personnel killed themselves during the 1991 Gulf War, although that conflict only lasted about a month. The Army recorded 102 suicides during 1991 for a rate of 14.4 per 100,000. The Army's highest suicide rate in recent years came in 1993, when the rate was 15.7 per 100,000.

The Marine Corps has the military's highest suicide rate. Last year the Marines' rate was 12.6 per 100,000. During 1993 - when there was US military action in Somalia and Haiti - the Marines' rate was 20.9 per 100,000.

The military investigates every death and some of those probes might be incomplete, meaning the actual suicide rate could be even higher, Winkenwerder said. He said health officials had not identified any common threads among the confirmed suicides.

"We don't see any trend there that tells us that there's more we might be doing," Winkenwerder told a breakfast meeting of Pentagon reporters.

The military has nine combat stress teams in Iraq to help treat troops' mental health problems, and each division has a psychiatrist, psychologist and social worker, Winkenwerder said. Of more than 10,000 troops medically evacuated from Iraq, between 300 and 400 were sent outside the country for treatment of mental health problems, he said.

The military preferred to treat mental health problems such as depression by keeping troops in their regular duties while they get counselling and possibly medication, Winkenwerder said. Less than 1 percent of the troops in Iraq are treated for mental issues during an average week, he said.

Winkenwerder said he had no specifics on the number of soldiers being treated for battlefield stress, although the military was focused on treating that problem.

"We believe they are being identified, they are being supported," Winkenwerder said.

The military also is working to solve the issue of soldiers awaiting non-emergency medical care. Since November, about 1900 of 4400 waiting for medical care had been treated, Winkenwerder said.

But the military expected more problems when tens of thousands of troops are rotated in and out of Iraq this northern spring, Winkenwerder said. Many of those troops leaving Iraq might have to wait at various bases in the United States for medical treatment such as physical therapy for injuries, he said.

The Army was working to sign contracts with civilian medical providers and bringing in more staff from the Navy, Air Force and Department of Veterans Affairs to help, Winkenwerder said.

Another source of the problem hadbeen a large number of National Guard and reserve troops activated for duty in Iraq who had to be treated for underlying health problems, Winkenwerder said. The Army was working to solve that problem by screening those reservists at their home bases, rather than later.

This report appears on NEWS.com.au.

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Name:    Steely
City:    Mandurah
Country: Australia
Email:   steelephil@yahoo.com.au
Date:    12-1-2003

Comments:

To change the pace a bit, from the UK

GULF SYNDROME BREAKTHROUGH
Jan 11 2004

By Mike Hamilton
 
GULF War Syndrome campaigners were last night hailing a major victory in their fight to have the disease offically recognised.

The Government has has always denied that it exists, but now a senior Army doctor has reported that a former soldier fell ill after being given multiple inoculations before the 1991 Iraq war. And a coroner has ruled that an Army Major given a similar cocktail of jabs died because of his service in The Gulf.

The moves are seen as breakthrough recognition that Gulf War Syndrome exists - and could lead to new compensation claims against the The Ministry of Defence.

Campaigners claim GWS has hit 9,000 veterans from the first Gulf War. And The Sunday Mirror has highlighted cases from last year's conflict.

Shaun Rusling, chairman of the National Gulf Veterans And Families Association, said: "These two cases are dynamite and proof Gulf War Syndrome exists.

"They are clear recognition that multiple vaccinations troops were given have led to serious ill health and death. The government should now stop covering this up."

The Army doctor produced a report on former Royal Engineer Alex Izzet, 33, who suffered 13 years of osteoporosis, arthritis, chronic fatigue and mood swings after received multiple vaccinations when his unit was put on standby for The Gulf in 1991.

In the second blow to the MOD, Cheshire Coroner Nicholas Rheinberg ruled the 2001 death of former Army Major Ian Hill was linked to his 1991 Gulf War service.

THE NGVFA's 24-hour helpline number is 01482 833812.

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